De um lado, o artista sempre foi visto como o bastião da liberdade de expressão. Enquanto havia um inimigo em comum, que era a ditadura militar, o artista era um pouco a voz da liberdade do cidadão, mas hoje há ataques de todos os lados. Tanto dos conservadores, que acusam a arte de mamar nas tetas (do governo), de se valer de dinheiro público para existir, quanto dos movimentos identitários que veem na classe artística uma elite. Então, a arte está rebolando. Hoje em dia, é difícil encontrar um assunto para se expressar livremente e não ser atacado de todos os lados. A arte existe no cinza. Nem no preto, nem no branco. O lugar da arte é o da subjetividade. E estamos vivendo um período em que não existe mais metáfora. Tudo é real e engajado. Outro dia, eu disse no programa do Faustão que vivia na Faixa de Gaza, no Rio. Aí alguém entrou no meu Facebook e postou: "Sua idiota, estúpida! Da próxima vez, leia sobre a história de Israel!". Usei a Faixa de Gaza como metáfora de lugar violento. Isso não existe mais. Estamos vivendo o fim da metáfora. Agora, as palavras só existem na sua concretude, no seu significado primeiro, do dicionário. Mas a arte é pura metáfora, pura subjetividade, ela é representação. Está muito difícil. Esse lado cinza, subjetivo da arte, se tornou sinônimo de frouxidão e falta de caráter.

Neste ano, lembramos os 50 anos de 1968, momento da contracultura. Como você descreve aquela época?

Foi uma época muito engajada, também. O Dias Gomes, que é um excelente autor, era considerado maior do que Nelson Rodrigues, porque Nelson era reacionário. Só que Nelson é muito maior do que Dias Gomes; é o maior dramaturgo que o Brasil já produziu: ele coloca a classe média do subúrbio do Rio dentro da tragédia grega. Nos anos 1960, tinha a contracultura, mas tinha essa patrulha ideológica – da esquerda e da direita. Quando comecei a me entender por gente, isso tinha acabado. Foi na época do Asdrúbal (o grupo teatral carioca Asdrúbal Trouxe o Trombone), do retorno do Caetano (Veloso) e do (Gilberto) Gil do exílio, época em que o (Fernando) Gabeira voltou com a sunga e todo o discurso ecológico e de sexo. Então, vivi um período em que aquele engajamento tinha arrefecido. Vi agora esse engajamento retornar de uma maneira chocante para mim. Tive que me acostumar a isso.

A cultura de massa agora não tem nenhuma sutileza, nenhuma sofisticação. Ela é bruta. Tudo o que tem alguma sofisticação é cult. Só funciona em nichos. 5l2q3q

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Você acha que 2018 será lembrado como um ano de revoluções ou de recrudescimento do conservadorismo?

Acho que estamos vivendo um embate dessas duas coisas. Você lembra os anos 1960 como tempo da Guerra Fria, de movimentos conservadores que mataram Martin Luther King e (John Fitzgerald) Kennedy e, ao mesmo tempo, lembra de maio de 1968. Um é resposta ao outro. De agora vamos lembrar principalmente o início do que as revoluções tecnológicas fizeram de nós. Isso é o que marca esse início do milênio. Aliás, escrevi A Glória... muito por isso, como uma reflexão sobre o que era a arte antes e o que é hoje.

O dilema do protagonista Mario Cardoso, que se vê entre o comodismo de um contrato com uma grande rede de TV e o risco de fazer arte no teatro, é um dilema do artista hoje"> 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